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<title>The missing eight months</title>
<description>I&#039;ve often wondered just what Charles Bingley did with himself in the period between disappearing from Netherfield Park in a cloud of stagecoach dust, and then stepping blithely out into the room of an Inn at Lambton like some Variety-show illusionist. The missing eight months in fact. 

In general, it doesn&#039;t take much imagination to decide what a single, healthy and wealthy young man in his early twenties might well do in such circumstances in London, particularly in a period that took in Christmas and New Year, but if the Bingley we think we know were true to type, just how much of his time did he spend thinking of Jane Bennet? With Georgiana on the scene and given the fact that their party only mixed with people of fashion and no one in status less than the Duke of Fullers Earth would be invited, it&#039;s hardly likely that tavern crawling and ladies of the night were on the social agenda. Balls, assemblies and supper parties no doubt were prime pastimes, maybe a small amount of gambling at Bridge etc, but even considering that, spending large amounts of time listening to his sisters chattering like demented canaries to the clicking of beads and bangles, and trying to keep an interested expression whilst airs on pianoforte, with Mr Hurst&#039;s snores providing the percussion filled the room, must have been a tad tedious? He did love to dance, we already know, but I imagine Caroline would see that not too much annoyed Mr Darcy, and that lively discussions on Lady Fotheringay&#039;s niece&#039;s elegant design for a firescreen, or Esmeralda Flushington&#039;s latest watercolour of an African parrot were displayed and admired. 

Seriously, eight months is a considerable time and, Darcy was presumably missing for some periods of it no doubt, on business and the visit to Rosings etc which might not have helped . Bingley must have suffered some periods of boredom in between firing paper balls of crumpled sonnets into the fireplace, surely? At the end of it, he bounced cheerfully back into the plot with all the impeccable timing of a stately grandfather clock striking the hour. What really did fill his hours of reflection?</description><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114595#msg-114595</link><lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 07:17:48 +0100</lastBuildDate>
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<title>Re: The missing eight months</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114888#msg-114888</link><description><![CDATA[I was assuming that by using the term "mid-twenties" I was giving myself a little elasticity in not pinning Caroline down to a set age. There's nothing to suggest (that I know of) that Lousia is the elder of the sisters. It does relate that finishing school and mixing with society people will have Caroline behaving decently on the surface. We are told enough about her to reveal he shallow nature underneath the fascade. I assume again that her nature and behavour are just a move-on from childhood. Not so much someone who has changed, but a spoiled peevish child just grown up. She is too intelligent to leave herself open to criticism by the people she thinks matter, but Darcy surely can see her falseness?]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2015 14:32:40 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114885#msg-114885</guid>
<title>Re: The missing eight months</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114885#msg-114885</link><description><![CDATA[Jim G.M Wrote:<br />-------------------------------------------------------<br />&gt; I think it's pretty clear that Caroline was the<br />&gt; spokesperson where Jane was concerned. Darcy and<br />&gt; the two Bingley sisters conspired to keep Charles<br />&gt; away from Jane, so telling the total truth was not<br />&gt; an option. Just how devious and false Caloline's<br />&gt; claims of friendship with Jane were is pretty much<br />&gt; outlined in her letter. She really doesn't want<br />&gt; Jane around and makes that clear by her dismissive<br />&gt; attitude in her visit to the Gardiners and in her<br />&gt; letter.<br />&gt; I<u>s her friendship with Georgiana actually genuine,<br />&gt; or just for Darcy's benefit? I wonder, knowing her<br />&gt; character, that if Georgiana were not his sister,<br />&gt; why would a woman in her mid-twenties show such<br />&gt; interest in a sixteen year old girl?</u><br /><br />We do not know that Caroline is in her mid-twenties. She might be closer to Elizabeth's age and that makes her busy-bodiness and willingness to interfere all the more impudent. She could be a bratty little sister attempting to boss everyone around, and Darcy tolerates her because of his relationship to Bingley. I feel actually more sympathy for an older Caroline, desperate to avoid the shelf, than a younger one. That's just me, of course.<br /><br />As for friendships between younger and older women, there is Elizabeth who is at least seven years younger than her best bud Charlotte.<br /><br />&gt; Caroline is<br />&gt; a fortune hunter and Darcy is the fortune she's<br />&gt; hunting. What she doesn't seem to realise is that<br />&gt; Darcy doesn't share her views on very much. She<br />&gt; very much enjoys his presence and position in<br />&gt; society, yet constantly puts her foot in things by<br />&gt; her demeaning remarks. <u>Given her character, I<br />&gt; wonder how she passes the time when Darcy isn't<br />&gt; around.</u> Bingley, despite the fact that she's his<br />&gt; sister, must find her somewhat tiresome at times.<br /><br />She no doubt passes the time associating with such other people of rank who will allow her presence and spending more money than she should. :)]]></description>
<dc:creator>Adelaide</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2015 12:11:41 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114846#msg-114846</guid>
<title>Re: The missing eight months</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114846#msg-114846</link><description><![CDATA[I think it's pretty clear that Caroline was the spokesperson where Jane was concerned. Darcy and the two Bingley sisters conspired to keep Charles away from Jane, so telling the total truth was not an option. Just how devious and false Caloline's claims of friendship with Jane were is pretty much outlined in her letter. She really doesn't want Jane around and makes that clear by her dismissive attitude in her visit to the Gardiners and in her letter.<br />Is her friendship with Georgiana actually genuine, or just for Darcy's benefit? I wonder, knowing her character, that if Georgiana were not his sister, why would a woman in her mid-twenties show such interest in a sixteen year old girl? Caroline is a fortune hunter and Darcy is the fortune she's hunting. What she doesn't seem to realise is that Darcy doesn't share her views on very much. She very much enjoys his presence and position in society, yet constantly puts her foot in things by her demeaning remarks. Given her character, I wonder how she passes the time when Darcy isn't around. Bingley, despite the fact that she's his sister, must find her somewhat tiresome at times.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2015 22:19:22 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114842#msg-114842</guid>
<title>Re: The missing eight months</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114842#msg-114842</link><description><![CDATA[I don't disagree with that interpretation, I just think we can't count on it. The odds are Caroline lied about the attachment between Bingley and Miss Darcy as a few months later there is no sign of it. And there is a clear motivation for her to say her brother is with Darcy since it supports the idea of an attachment. The fact that Lizzy believes Bingley is with Darcy despite disbelieving Caroline's other contention is only very mildly supportive of the former, as she is proven to be quite poor when it comes to understanding anything to do with Darcy.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Harvey S.</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:57:11 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114756#msg-114756</guid>
<title>Re: Georgiana&#039;s establishment</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114756#msg-114756</link><description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Renee B</strong><br />I did recollect a conversation in P&amp;P where Darcy gives implicit assent to having a house in town. Sir William Lucas is querying him ...</div></blockquote>
<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Jim GM</strong><br />... Darcy's house (we know he had this from his conversation with Sir William Lucas) ...</div></blockquote><br />Thank you both for your reply. I had completely forgotten that detail from Darcy's conversation with Sir William.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Beatrice</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2015 13:08:28 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114755#msg-114755</guid>
<title>Re: Georgiana&#039;s establishment</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114755#msg-114755</link><description><![CDATA[In fairness, Beatrice, Jane Austen didn't clarify beyond what she wrote <i>"An establishment was formed for her in London, and the lady who presided over it...."etc.</i> I agree it seems a bit pointless to be anywhere than Darcy's house (we know he had this from his conversation with Sir William Lucas) but there are several alternatives to understanding it.<br /><br />An establishment can mean several things: You can establish a situation (the answer I prefer) where someone (Georgiana) is installed with a governess either in her property or elsewhere. ( where being a matter of opinon but not really affecting anything) .An establishment can mean a location, but why not say residence if it is merely such? That said, if Mrs Younge had been merely a landlady she would hardly have accompanied Georgiana to Ramsgate. This suggests Mrs Younge was primarily a governess/companion who presided over her charge/charges in her own property and Georgiana was established/moved in with her. To pay to rent property for them both otherwise, seems utterly senseless when Darcy's house was available. The only absolutely certain situation is that Georgiana was in her care and they went to Ramsgate together. The nature of Mrs Younge's business in her later Edward Street house in London isn't disclosed. She may have still carried on taking in pupils/charges, or just simply become a landlady renting rooms.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2015 12:37:55 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114752#msg-114752</guid>
<title>Re: Georgiana&#039;s establishment</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114752#msg-114752</link><description><![CDATA[Without weighing in on Georgiana's establishment, I did recollect a conversation in P&amp;P where Darcy gives implicit assent to having a house in town. Sir William Lucas is querying him:<br /><br /><blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong></strong><br />"You have a house in town, I conclude?"<br /><br />Mr. Darcy bowed.<br /><br />"I had once had some thought of fixing in town myself—for I am fond of superior society; but I did not feel quite certain that the air of London would agree with Lady Lucas."</div></blockquote>]]></description>
<dc:creator>Renee B</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2015 03:49:16 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114751#msg-114751</guid>
<title>Re: Georgiana&#039;s establishment</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114751#msg-114751</link><description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Debra Mc</strong><br />In my Annotated copy of P and P, this is what the note about this quote says: "establishment: household, residence. Living in London, instead of returning to Pemberley, could allow Georgiana to further her education, for London would have the finest masters to tutor her; it could also allow any close friends of the family who lived in London to introduce her to more people and thereby help improve her social skills and extend her network of acquaintances."<br />As I read this, she did not live with her brother, but with her companion, and the purpose of her being established in London was to further her education.</div></blockquote><br />I fully agree.<br /><br />But honestly, I can't really see why Georgiana &amp; companion couldn't have taken up residence with Darcy in his townhouse. Why live separately ?<br /><br />It just occurred to me: Is there anywhere in "P&amp;P" expressly mentioned that Darcy owned a townhouse in London ? Because if it is not mentioned (I could be very wrong with that), then perhaps we might presume that there was no Darcy House in Town or, if it was, that it had been closed down, and therefore the necessity to form an establishment purposely for Georgiana and her companion was unavoidable and obvious.<br /><br />Of course, given Darcy's wealth and status, it is more logical to assume that he did own a house in London. But the lack of it or its close-down would be such a good explanation for Georgiana's 'separate' establishment.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Beatrice</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2015 01:47:28 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114749#msg-114749</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114749#msg-114749</link><description><![CDATA[I know exactly where you're coming from with most of the above Jim. I'm an old man now and I've read so many books I think I burned my brain out. We were passing Hank Janson around at school back in the fifties before they became banned material. A lot of supposed police procedural stuff today is a let down, but Quintin Jardine and Ian Rankin's Scottish police novels are worth reading. I like John Le Carre's spy stuff and yes, I've read the Virgil Cole and Everett Hitch westerns, but never quite got into Jesse Stone. James Lee Burke is another very decent author without overdoing it. I'll get round to seeking out Harry Bosch on the net somewhere along it all. When my head needs a rest is when I go back to Pride and Prejudice, or even Ivanhoe. Something very soothing about the clop of hooves against a turbo engined sports car. (-:]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 20:24:04 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114739#msg-114739</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114739#msg-114739</link><description><![CDATA[James,<br /><br />Re your comments:<br /><br />&gt; I'm also a big Spenser and Jack<br />&gt; Reacher fan along with quite a lot of others.<br /><br />I kinda burnt out on Spenser some time back (though I've developed a taste for Parker's Jesse Stone cop novels and his westerns about a pair of roving frontier lawmen). Virtually all private eye novels since Chandler's <i>The Big Sleep</i> (Joe Gores is an obvious exception) are derivative of Chandler's Marlowe series (I wrote an article about it once called "The Marlowe Paradigm"), but few were as self-conscious about it as Parker. I also got tired if the endless discussions about the meaning of honor. What got me most, though, was his moral inconsistency in one novel. I think it was <i>A Catskill Eagle</i>. Anyway, Spenser's got the drop on a bad guy who's now unarmed, and his gangster buddy, Hawk, tells Spenser to kill him. Spenser says something to the effect of how his sense of ethics won't allow him to kill an unarmed man. So Hawk, conveniently removing Spenser's moral dilemma, kills him instead. Hawk, the guy who does all the really nasty, but supposedly necessary stuff that would sully Spenser's precious honor, just seems too damned convenient for me.<br /><br />But, here's the thing. If murder is wrong, isn't it wrong for everybody? If it was wrong for Spenser to kill an unarmed man, wasn't it just as wrong to stand by and let someone else do it for him? Particularly when, armed as he was, he had the means to prevent it? Isn't he, when the situation is analyzed rather than passed over quickly as part of a fast read, just as complicit?<br /><br />I stopped reading them after that.<br /><br />I've only read three of Lee Childs's Reacher novels, the two "prequels" in which he's still an Army cop, and the first one published, <i>The Killing Floor</i>. He got a lot of the military and law enforcement details wrong, which irked me since the whole <i>raison d'être</i> of a police procedural is technical accuracy (in one of them he says the only five-star general in US history was George Washington; criminy, there were ten five-stars, if you include the admirals, in WW2 alone!). I liked <i>The Killing Floor</i>, particularly the well-wrought small-town setting, but I never quite bought the central coincidence, and the notion that one federal agent could,for practical purposes, wipe out counterfeiting struck me as unbelievable.<br /><br />Still, he has a facility with story, plot, and style I can only envy and he writes the most convincing American of any British author I've ever read.<br /><br />&gt; Not the world's greatest T.V watcher though. I prefer<br />&gt; reading.<br /><br />You have to seek out <i>Bosch</i> on the 'Net. It's only available at Amazon. It comes free if you're a prime members. Some divergences from the books, but Michael Connelly is the exec producer and he's written some of the scripts (one is a collaboration with George Pelecanos).<br /><br />JIM]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim D.</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:50:49 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114730#msg-114730</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114730#msg-114730</link><description><![CDATA[Jim D. Wrote:<br />-------------------------------------------------------<br />&gt; Oh my God! Another Mike Connelly fan!! What do<br />&gt; you think of the new <i>Bosch</i> TV series?<br />&gt;<br />&gt; JIM D.<br /><br />Ha, yes, I'm a Connelly fan. I've read most of the Bosch novels (currently got <i>The Overlook</i> from the local library and I may have read it already, but re-reading is no hassle to me-hence Jane Austen). I'm also a big Spenser and Jack Reacher fan along with quite a lot of others. Not the world's greatest T.V watcher though. I prefer reading. (-;]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:20:22 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114717#msg-114717</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114717#msg-114717</link><description><![CDATA[James,<br /><br />Re your question below<br /><br />&gt; <i>"I'm a cop and it's common failing of<br />&gt; policemen) a far more admirable trait than<br />&gt; thinking badly of everyone."</i>........<br />&gt; Or as Harry Bosch would say..."Everybody matters<br />&gt; or nobody matters"....(-:<br /><br />Oh my God! Another Mike Connelly fan!! What do you think of the new <i>Bosch</i> TV series?<br /><br />JIM D.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim D.</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2015 01:25:53 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114711#msg-114711</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114711#msg-114711</link><description><![CDATA[<i>"Finally, no offense to the ladies, but it's kinda fun to have these discussions with another guy! JIM"</i><br /><br />Amen to that Jim. (-:<br /><br />I'm confessing that although I've read all Jane Austen's novela, <i>Pride and Prejudice</i> is by far my favourite. I have three books always within reach, <i>The Bible, The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam and Pride and Prejudice</i>. I'll say that it's actually what Jane Austen doesn't tell us, the opportunity that allows us to figure it out for ourselves, that makes her unique. None of us really know what Darcy, Lizzie or any of the others actually look like. That's fun. I have no real argument with much of what you say, I just like the chance to air views.<br /><br /><i>"I'm a cop and it's common failing of policemen) a far more admirable trait than thinking badly of everyone."</i>........<br />Or as Harry Bosch would say..."Everybody matters or nobody matters"....(-:]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:32:08 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114706#msg-114706</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114706#msg-114706</link><description><![CDATA[James,<br /><br />Re your comments:<br /><br />&gt; <i>You never see a fault in any body. All the<br />&gt; world are good and agreeable in your eyes. I never<br />&gt; heard you speak ill of a human being in my<br />&gt; life.''</i><br /><br />That doesn't make her weak. It does, I grant you, make her vulnerable to people who don't deserve her good opinion (i.e. Caroline Bingley), but thinking well of everyone is (and I speak as one who falls into the other category more often than not; I'm a cop and it's common failing of policemen) a far more admirable trait than thinking badly of everyone.<br /><br />&gt; I do but be realistic in saying all the Bennets<br />&gt; girls lead very sheltered lives. Apart from the<br />&gt; odd walk/shopping trip to Meryton, some gossip and<br />&gt; socialising at a couple of close neighbours and a<br />&gt; monthly assembly, nothing much seems to happen<br />&gt; beyond a rousing family chat about Fordyce's<br />&gt; Sermons, a backgammon battle occasionally and<br />&gt; maybe a bit of terpsichore to Mary's pianoforte,<br />&gt; oh, and Lizzie hurdling a style or two whist<br />&gt; walking. Upper/middle-class, no employment to<br />&gt; trouble them and, in Jane's case, seemingly a real<br />&gt; home-bird who is the one who looks after the<br />&gt; children. Mary is studious, Kitty and Lydia<br />&gt; senseless and Lizzie fiesty and with a little more<br />&gt; "quickness" than the rest. Jane, at twenty two and<br />&gt; five times prettier than anyone else has<br />&gt; presumably had some male interest besides the<br />&gt; sonnet scribbler with a taste for fifteen year<br />&gt; olds. That said, Bingley apart there is little<br />&gt; romantic activity in her life mentioned anywhere.<br />&gt; Darcy accepts she is pretty but "smiles too much"<br />&gt; and Wickham doesn't give her a second look. Mr<br />&gt; Collins considers her for all of thirty seconds<br />&gt; before moving on to Lizzie. Lolita she isn't.<br />&gt; Bingley appears to be the love of her life.<br />&gt; Personally, I think she and he would make a fine<br />&gt; pair of Staffordshire pot figures for the<br />&gt; mantlepiece. (-; Anne Elliot is much more mature<br />&gt; and we do get to know a lot about her character.<br />&gt; Jane Bennet is far more a background figure. We<br />&gt; finish up glad for her happy ending, but in my<br />&gt; case, little more.<br /><br />But Anne was only 19 when she and Wentworth first became engaged. When we meet her she's 27, still young, but on the shelf as far as society is concerned, and, yes, she's had eight years of a lost love to mature her, compared to Jane's few months. And as a daughter of the aristocracy, living in a similar rural community, is she really any less sheltered than Jane. As the ignored middle daughter, she's never even had a London season, as far as can be determined from the book. She describes herself as sheltered in her pivotal conversation with Capt. Harville.<br /><br />"We live at home," she tells Haville, "quiet, confined, and our feelings prey upon us." Sounds kinda like the same situation you describe the Bennet sisters as having been raised in.<br /><br />Of course she's more mature. But she was roughly where Jane is (minus a loving, if rambunctious family) when she first met Frederick. And yet he was the man for her. If anything, it was her lack of maturity, and her confidence in her own feelings, that led to their separation.<br /><br />I don't say she's a clone. She's more accomplished (i.e. piano, languages), probably a little more polished, being from an aristocratic (if minor aristocracy) family. But her main character traits, kindly, gentle, quiet, accommodating, firm on matters of principle, all mirror Jane's.<br /><br />We do;t know how Jane would perform in a crisis, while we do know that Anne rises to the occasion, but that's at least partly a plot point. Had the story called for it, I think Jane might be able to handle an emergency, too.<br /><br />As you point out, she's a supporting character, so she's not as richly developed as Anne. Moreover, <i>P&amp;P</i> is, IIRC, Miss Austen's first novel-length work. <i>Persuasion</i> was her last, and it shows the maturing of both her talent and her outlook.<br /><br />I don't say that Bingley's a bad match for Jane. And, of course, it's the match Miss Austen planned for her, which disposes me to approve it, and be happy when it happens (exactly, I suspect, as Miss Austen hopes her audience would feel). It doesn't follow, though, that Jane, or a real person very much like Jane, couldn't be happy with someone who was more forceful.<br /><br />&gt; As to fanfics, they are but the product of modern<br />&gt; imaginations and little to do with anything. Jane<br />&gt; Austen's book/books is/are the only unarguable<br />&gt; canon. I read P.D. James's <i>Death Comes to<br />&gt; Pemberley</i> ( which I though awful) and watched<br />&gt; the BBC miniseries (with a blue-eyed Lizzie)<br />&gt; unimpressed. <i>Lost in Austen</i> was harmless<br />&gt; and quite hilarious and I've seen it twice because<br />&gt; it never attempts to be anything but spoof and<br />&gt; Amanda Root is brilliant in it. None of it is<br />&gt; relevant in any way. To me, fan-fic is just<br />&gt; jumping on the Austen bandwaggon. Sorry if that<br />&gt; upsets anyone. It isn't intended to.<br /><br />I was disappointed in <i>DCtP</i>, too; less in its TV adaptation, though that, too, was disappointing. This quite surprised me since I'm a great admirer of the Baroness's cop novels featuring high-ranking Scotland Yarder Adam Dalgliesh.<br /><br />But as for fan-fics in general, it strikes me that you've joined an odd group if you don't like Austen fan-fiction. Don't take that as sharp as it might read. Sometimes the words sound friendlier in my head that they turn out to be on the page. If this is one of those times, it's just meant as an observation, not an insult.<br /><br />I do agree that everyone puts their own spin on it. But matching Jane with a dashing military man isn't a big stretch. It just didn't suit the plot (not the characters, but the plot) of the story Miss Austen spun. And most people who write, or read, fan-fiction do so because they've come to know the characters, and the stories, so well.<br /><br />Frankly, for me, the wild card in a Jane/Colonel match isn't Jane. It's Fitzwilliam. He's the real <i>tabula rasa</i>. We don't know if he's Regular Army, Royal Marines, or Militia. We don't know if he's cavalry, infantry, artillery, or engineer. We don't even know if he's a serving officer, or if, like Colonel Brandon, he's returned to civilian life, but continues to use his military title.<br /><br />And es, Jane'd make a fine mother, and that's what her character seems to best fit her for. But the same could be said for Anne Elliot.<br /><br />Finally, no offense to the ladies, but it's kinda fun to have these discussions with another guy!<br /><br />JIM]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim D.</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 21:41:07 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114696#msg-114696</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114696#msg-114696</link><description><![CDATA[Jim D. Greetings. I don't ask you to do anything but accept my opinons as just such and nothing more. (-:<br /><br />Lizzie say's of Jane:<br /><br /><i>You never see a fault in any body. All the world are good and agreeable in your eyes. I never heard you speak ill of a human being in my life.''</i><br /><br />I do but be realistic in saying all the Bennets girls lead very sheltered lives. Apart from the odd walk/shopping trip to Meryton, some gossip and socialising at a couple of close neighbours and a monthly assembly, nothing much seems to happen beyond a rousing family chat about Fordyce's Sermons, a backgammon battle occasionally and maybe a bit of terpsichore to Mary's pianoforte, oh, and Lizzie hurdling a style or two whist walking. Upper/middle-class, no employment to trouble them and, in Jane's case, seemingly a real home-bird who is the one who looks after the children. Mary is studious, Kitty and Lydia senseless and Lizzie fiesty and with a little more "quickness" than the rest. Jane, at twenty two and five times prettier than anyone else has presumably had some male interest besides the sonnet scribbler with a taste for fifteen year olds. That said, Bingley apart there is little romantic activity in her life mentioned anywhere. Darcy accepts she is pretty but "smiles too much" and Wickham doesn't give her a second look. Mr Collins considers her for all of thirty seconds before moving on to Lizzie. Lolita she isn't. Bingley appears to be the love of her life. Personally, I think she and he would make a fine pair of Staffordshire pot figures for the mantlepiece. (-; Anne Elliot is much more mature and we do get to know a lot about her character. Jane Bennet is far more a background figure. We finish up glad for her happy ending, but in my case, little more.<br /><br />As to fanfics, they are but the product of modern imaginations and little to do with anything. Jane Austen's book/books is/are the only unarguable canon. I read P.D. James's <i>Death Comes to Pemberley</i> ( which I though awful) and watched the BBC miniseries (with a blue-eyed Lizzie) unimpressed. <i>Lost in Austen</i> was harmless and quite hilarious and I've seen it twice because it never attempts to be anything but spoof and Amanda Root is brilliant in it. None of it is relevant in any way. To me, fan-fic is just jumping on the Austen bandwaggon. Sorry if that upsets anyone. It isn't intended to.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:57:03 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114693#msg-114693</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114693#msg-114693</link><description><![CDATA[James (I use the formal version to avoid confusion),<br /><br />Re your comment below:<br /><br />&gt; In Bingley, to fit Jane's almost angelic demeanour,<br />&gt; she had to have someone who, if he raised his<br />&gt; voice may cause Jane to have an attack of vapours.<br />&gt; Jane needed someone who was that "man without<br />&gt; fault" and, in creating him Jane Austen actually<br />&gt; needed a cheerful Charlie, goody-goody guy so much<br />&gt; so that she sent him on an eight month holiday to<br />&gt; stop him doing anything wrong.<br /><br />I think you're misreading Jane Bennetif you think she needed someone who could never show passion, or even anger. Or that such a person would "give her a case of the vapors." Jane is not the only gentle heroine (supporting heroine in this case) Miss Austen ever created. And gentle is not a synonym for "weak."<br /><br />The "Jane-like" Anne Elliot (who, I grant you is more developed than Jane, but she's both the main and the viewpoint character) attracts, and is attracted to the ultra-masculine professional military man Frederick Wentworth.<br /><br />It's not Anne, but Lady Russell, who's turned off by his bluff, hearty manner, his confidence, and his general demeanor.<br /><br />Look how many fan-fics convincingly match Jane to the Wentworth-like Col. Fitzwilliam. Are every one of those fan-fic writers completely misreading Jane Bennet's character. I don't think so.<br /><br />None of this has anything to do with whether or not Charles is a wimp, but, he's got a good heart, and is a loyal friend, and I'd rather have a sister of mine matched with a guy like that, than, as others have pointed out, a Wickham, a Willoughby, or a Hank Crawford.<br /><br />JIM D.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim D.</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:52:17 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114692#msg-114692</guid>
<title>Re: For every Willoughby...</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114692#msg-114692</link><description><![CDATA[Hi Jim<br /><br />I think that it would have been very difficult for Bingley to go back and leave again without proposing. As I am sure Darcy would have pointed out to him, he had already raised expectations to some extent by singling Jane out so much especially at the Netherfield ball but he could still withdraw with honour. If he returned and courted her for a longer period or spent time alone then to withdraw would have been more difficult, possible but it could have had repercussions for Jane.<br /><br />Having said all that here are a couple of wonderful stories where he does return that are very enjoyable and well written :)<br /><br />I do like Bingley as a character, I think he is a true gentleman rather than a wimp so I do think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Little Nell</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:12:13 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114690#msg-114690</guid>
<title>Re: For every Willoughby...</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114690#msg-114690</link><description><![CDATA[Hi, Little Nell.<br /><br />No, I didn't really mean to imply Bingley asking Jane anything directly, just going back and trying to gauge her reception towards him (which <i>we</i> know would have been positive even though he didn't). Since not a word of love had been spoken and not even a hand touch beyond the dance floor, how would it be different if he just accepted Mrs Bennet's invitation to dine with the family? That broached no protocols or social customs. In fact, but for Bingley being almost Shanghai'd away from Netherfield by Darcy and his sisters, that's probably how events would have unfolded gradually. Bingley had already ridden into Meryton on the way to the manor house to enquire after Jane's health. He was smitten. Darcy knew this and was afraid his friend would fall into the clutches of the Longbourne Munsters. It's easy for us to see, in retrospect, what Darcy's objections were, because who would want a Mrs Bennet and her frightful daughters as in laws? Perish the thought! But none of that had to matter if Bingley felt he was in love with Jane. We know all about Jane's anguish and her own feelings of rejection, but what of Bingley's feelings?<br /><br />All that was different when he next saw her was that he'd wasted eight months when he could have acted as he did right then? When he finally returned, did he not ride up to Longbourne Manor, knock on the door and tell Jane of his feelings?]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:49:49 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114689#msg-114689</guid>
<title>Re: For every Willoughby...</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114689#msg-114689</link><description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong></strong><br />Of course, Bingley might not wish to incur Darcy's disapproval by daring to suggest such a thing...... but he should have done. He may have been unsure, even feared rejection, but he needed to see for himself. For that, I'm not prepared to excuse him.</div></blockquote> Jim G.M<br /><br />I don't think Bingley had any problem displeasing Darcy.<br />He teases him at the Meryton Assembly and at Netherfield and Darcy informs us that he is angry with him when he finds out that he hid the fact that Jane was in London from him.<br />In his letter to E. Darcy tells us that nothing he said about Jane and her connections could dissuade Bingley it was only the assurance of his older and more objective ( as Bingley thought) friend that Jane didn't love him that stopped him.<br /><br />With respect it was much more complicated than Bingley just riding to Meryton and asking Jane straight out if she loved him. I don't think he feared rejection, in fact I think the opposite was the case. He knew that he was a good catch, that Jane would be put under a lot of pressure to accept him. In fact even we don't know that Mr Bennet would support her if she refused Bingley as he did when E. refused Collins. That support appeared to be more about his dislike of Collins than his support for E. Bingley would be a much more acceptable son in law and suited to Jane. Bingley did not want to put Jane in a potentially distressing situation (remember Mrs B.'s treatment of E. after she refused Collins) but probably also didn't want to find himself married to a woman who had no choice in the matter.<br /><br />I think JA goes to some trouble to clear Bingley of any fault in his desertion of Jane and also to demonstrate the steadiness of his love . I refer to his conversation with E. in Lambton and his eagerness to propose once he knew Jane did care.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Little Nell</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:40:26 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114688#msg-114688</guid>
<title>For every Willoughby...</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114688#msg-114688</link><description><![CDATA[.....there's an Edward Ferrar, a Colonel Brandon, a Mr Knightly etc. Those perspectives are a little far apart. As far apart in fact as J.A's heroines and her Fanny Dahwoods. There's also a section of maledom that's neither. An ordinary man who might not go around seducing attractive women but won't cover his eyes when one passes. Jane Austen almost let Bingley drop his perfect persona when he declared Jane Bennet to be "a beautiful angel", and Darcy declared his friend had fallen in love many times in the past. This is why it's so strange that Bingley just tamely acccepted a fictional rejection related by another rather than just riding back the fifty miles of good road in half-a-day, marching up to Longbourne's front door and saying "I've come to take up your kind offer of dinner" to the ever hopeful Mrs Bennet. The queen bee of matchmakers would have made sure that things progressed in the right direction. Of course, Bingley might not wish to incur Darcy's disapproval by daring to suggest such a thing...... but he should have done. He may have been unsure, even feared rejection, but he needed to see for himself. For that, I'm not prepared to excuse him.<br /><br />I'd like to think that if asked about those missing eight months and what Bingley did, Jane Austen might have just smiled and said " Make of that what you will"....(-:]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:39:36 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114685#msg-114685</guid>
<title>Re: Someone like Willoughby, for example?</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114685#msg-114685</link><description><![CDATA[Graciale said:<br /><br /><i>I will also point that neither Darcy, nor the rest of Jane Austen's heroes are cheerful rakes who get some person inebriated, and shoot a chandelier down."</i><br /><br />I must remember not to joke when mentioning Jane's heroes then, or make those funny little smilie things at the end of my posts. I stand chastised.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:12:35 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114681#msg-114681</guid>
<title>Brilliant, Graciela!</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114681#msg-114681</link><description><![CDATA[I agree, however wimpy one might feel Bingley is, he is NO Willoughby -- or Wickham, or Henry Crawford.<br /><br />Bingley is a good guy, and you have to agree to that, angry as one might be because he failed to return promptly to Netherfield, you can never see him as evil. He is not a rake, or an insensitive cad or a self-important and self-centered spoiled brat.<br /><br />The worst you can call him is a wimp, and I think that is highly debatable.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Redson</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 01:20:26 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114680#msg-114680</guid>
<title>Someone like Willoughby, for example?</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114680#msg-114680</link><description><![CDATA[Who seduces a young woman and abandons her pregnant; courts another girl and then leaves her and finally marries a rich woman for her fortune?<br />Or like Henry Crawford, who flirts with two sisters (one of them engaged to marriage with other man), tries to "make a hole in another girl's heart" and ends running with a married woman?<br />Or like George Wickham, who convinces a young girl to elope, with the intention of getting her fortune; then courts another rich girl; and elopes with a third girl, whom he only marries because a lot of money was paid?<br /><br />I will also point that neither Darcy, nor the rest of Jane Austen's heroes are cheerful rakes who get some person inebriated, and shoot a chandelier down.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Graciela</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2015 00:49:59 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114678#msg-114678</guid>
<title>Re: Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114678#msg-114678</link><description><![CDATA["He was <s>quite young, wonderfully handsome, extremely agreeable</s>"<br /><br />Whereas, in truth, I'm not really any of those things....(-:<br /><br />Jane Austen had a wonderful sense of creating her players with totally different personalities and also exagerating their characters almost to ridicule . Mr Collins, Lady Catherine, Mrs Bennet, and Lydia etc, are great examples of this. In Bingley, to fit Jane's almost angelic demeanour, she had to have someone who, if he raised his voice may cause Jane to have an attack of vapours. Jane needed someone who was that "man without fault" and, in creating him Jane Austen actually needed a cheerful Charlie, goody-goody guy so much so that she sent him on an eight month holiday to stop him doing anything wrong. In Charles Bingley most males probably see the man who, in their twenties, they would least like to be. Give us a cheerful rake who likes a drop of port, chats up the maid, gets Mr Collins inebriated, and shoots the chandelier down at Lady Catherine's Christmas party claiming it's a vulture. (-:]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:02:02 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114677#msg-114677</guid>
<title>Jim: the circle around the arts; Charles: the circle around Darcy</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114677#msg-114677</link><description><![CDATA[So we would find Jim in the periphery of Lord Byron's set, the bookish-artsy folks frequenting the literary salons and the museums, taking road trips to the Ashmolean in Oxfordshire, or ports like Bristol to sketch boats <i>en plein air</i> before modeling them. Or taking lectures on industry like ship building and historic naval engagements, then shopping for materials for your model craft. Add instruction from masters on dance and painting, and you could be quite busy for months without the awkwardness of new women in your life while your heart mended and your conscience eventually demanded you seek a resolution.<br /><br />But if you were Bingley, you would also conform to these descriptions:<br /><br /><blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong></strong><br />"He was quite young, wonderfully handsome, extremely agreeable"<br /><br />"...he wore a blue coat, and rode a black horse."<br /><br />"Mr. Bingley was good-looking and gentlemanlike; he had a pleasant countenance, and easy, unaffected manners."<br /><br />"Mr. Bingley had soon made himself acquainted with all the principal people in the room; he was lively and unreserved, danced every dance, was angry that the ball closed so early, and talked of giving one himself at Netherfield."<br /><br />(<i>Bingley, to Darcy</i>)" "I must have you dance. I hate to see you standing about by yourself in this stupid manner. You had much better dance."<br /><br />"I would not be so fastidious as you are," cried Mr. Bingley, "for a kingdom!"<br /><br />"Mr. Bingley followed his advice." (<i>Walking off after Darcy rejects his plea to dance</i>)<br /><br />"...it was doubtful to many of those who best knew the easiness of his temper, ..."<br /><br />"Mr. Bingley had not been of age two years, when he was tempted by an accidental recommendation to look at Netherfield House. He did look at it, and into it for half-an-hour—was pleased with the situation and the principal rooms, satisfied with what the owner said in its praise, and took it immediately."<br /><br />"Between him and Darcy there was a very steady friendship, in spite of great opposition of character. Bingley was endeared to Darcy by the easiness, openness, and ductility of his temper, though no disposition could offer a greater contrast to his own, and though with his own he never appeared dissatisfied."<br /><br />"In understanding, Darcy was the superior. Bingley was by no means deficient, ..."<br /><br />"Bingley was sure of being liked wherever he appeared,..."<br /><br />"... everybody had been most kind and attentive to him; there had been no formality, no stiffness; he had soon felt acquainted with all the room;..."<br /><br />"It is amazing to me," said Bingley, "how young ladies can have patience to be so very accomplished as they all are."<br /><br />"Whatever I do is done in a hurry," replied he; "and therefore if I should resolve to quit Netherfield, I should probably be off in five minutes."<br /><br />"When I am in the country," he replied, "I never wish to leave it; and when I am in town it is pretty much the same. They have each their advantages, and I can be equally happy in either."<br /><br />"Mr. Bingley was unaffectedly civil in his answer, and forced his younger sister to be civil also, and say what the occasion required."<br /><br />"Mr. Hurst and Mr. Bingley were at piquet,..."<br /><br />"Oh!" cried Miss Bingley, "Charles writes in the most careless way imaginable. He leaves out half his words, and blots the rest."<br />"My ideas flow so rapidly that I have not time to express them—by which means my letters sometimes convey no ideas at all to my correspondents."<br /><br />(<i>Darcy to Bingley</i>) ""I dare say you believed it; but I am by no means convinced that you would be gone with such celerity. Your conduct would be quite as dependent on chance as that of any man I know; and if, as you were mounting your horse, a friend were to say, 'Bingley, you had better stay till next week,' you would probably do it, you would probably not go—and at another word, might stay a month."<br /><br />(<i>Darcy</i>)"I see your design, Bingley," said his friend. "You dislike an argument, and want to silence this."<br />"Perhaps I do. Arguments are too much like disputes. ..."<br /><br />"She was resolved against any sort of conversation with him, and turned away with a degree of ill-humour which she could not wholly surmount even in speaking to Mr. Bingley, whose blind partiality provoked her."<br /><br />"Bingley was all grateful pleasure, and he readily engaged for taking the earliest opportunity of waiting on her, after his return from London, whither he was obliged to go the next day for a short time."<br /><br />(<i>Darcy to Elizabeth</i>) "But Bingley has great natural modesty, with a stronger dependence on my judgement than on his own."</div></blockquote><br />Charles is extremely social, and modest (suggesting a youthful distrust of his own abilities). He is easy to please, can be persuaded readily to switch entertainments though at times he may appear to suffer from attention deficit.<br /><br />He is not a reader, or he would have had plans to fill Netherfield's library already. He hasn't the patience to take up a hobby requiring confinement indoors, as women of accomplishment might.<br /><br />He plays cards; he bird-hunts; he rides. He dislikes arguments and disputes. We could expect Charles to keep busy with an extremely wide-range of harmonious social activities, especially if they require action.<br /><br />But above all else, Charles is ductility defined in Darcy's hands, and <i>yang</i> to his friend's <i>yin</i>.<br /><br />What else did Charles Bingley do, then, for eight months?<br /><br />Anything Darcy asked, and then whatever might keep Darcy from being an obstreperous butthead on a Sunday evening.<br /><br />I picture these two being something like the original Odd Couple, with Darcy being a less-chatty Felix and Charles being a friendlier Oscar. Eight months could pass easily in each other's company. It's no wonder Darcy was so twitchy about disclosing the truth to Charles about Jane's feelings and her stay in London. Charles' righteous anger could have put an abrupt end to a singularly close friendship, the loss of which might have been more traumatic for them than losing any woman's affections.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Femme Malheureuse</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 18:38:42 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114675#msg-114675</guid>
<title>Perfect! Well done!(nfm)</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114675#msg-114675</link><description><![CDATA[(This message does not contain any text.)]]></description>
<dc:creator>Sandy C</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:57:57 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114673#msg-114673</guid>
<title>Re: Cracked up over this one</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114673#msg-114673</link><description><![CDATA[Femme Malheureuse Wrote:<br />-------------------------------------------------------<br />&gt; I admit being greatly amused by the nature of the<br />&gt; first respondents when this question was posted<br /><br />&gt; What would <b>you</b> have done, gentlemen, in<br />&gt; Bingley's shoes?<br />&gt;<br />Being all the wrong things for wimpism in general attitude, I still dance, write, draw, paint, build model ships and have been known to quote a poetic limerick or two on occasion, all things seem by "los machos" as wimpisms. That said, the lure of the femme-fatale is ever a powerful magnet. I'm pretty sure in Bingley's shoes I would never have just taken Darcy's word without some questions. Bingley must have seen Jane as receptive to his mild advances and interest and, if he did feel himself in love, then "carpe-diem" and to xxxx with what anyone else thought or wanted. At least, having been convinced one way or the other, then he could have got on with his life in the knowlege that it was his own. In short, he may have been a good chap, but his actions over Jane were totally wimpish.<br /><br />Young Bingley we fear lost the plot<br />His friends placed him in a bad spot,<br />In London he pondered, as Grosvenor he wandered<br />"She loves me, or she love me not?"<br /><br />"Oh Charles dear" said Miss Caroline<br />In the West End this life style is fine.<br />Forget about passion, think only of fashion,<br />and balls, fine cuisine and good wine"<br /><br />Said Bingley " I fear, I'm a sinner,<br />I can be but a loser or winner.<br />Why don't I just call, is it worth risking all<br />For a smile and two courses of dinner? " (-:]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:48:17 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114668#msg-114668</guid>
<title>Re: Cracked up over this one</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114668#msg-114668</link><description><![CDATA[Femme Malheureuse Wrote: (excerpted, see her full comment in this thread)<br />-------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />&gt; What would <b>you</b> have done, gentlemen, in<br />&gt; Bingley's shoes?<br />&gt;<br />&gt; I don't think men have changed all that much in<br />&gt; 200 years. Men of wealth without professions,<br />&gt; whose time is not eaten up by requirements of wage<br />&gt; earning, still occupy themselves in:<br />&gt;<br />&gt; — sports (ex. Four Horse and other riding clubs,<br />&gt; horse racing, Angelo's)<br />&gt; — gaming<br />&gt; — investment opportunities and subsequent<br />&gt; management of same (ex. buying and selling of<br />&gt; shares in businesses like East India Trading Co,<br />&gt; business loans, buying into funds including the<br />&gt; government's fund)<br />&gt; — events and venues (theater, opera, museums,<br />&gt; art shows, festivals, etc.)<br />&gt; — socialization with other men (clubs like<br />&gt; Brooks', White's, Boodle's, coffee houses,<br />&gt; literary or merchants’ clubs)<br />&gt; — socialization with women (both public and<br />&gt; private in nature), and in mixed sex environments<br />&gt; (parties, balls, soirees<br />&gt; — politics where appropriate and where interest<br />&gt; encourage (land holdings and capital-intensive<br />&gt; investments would have been inducements)<br /><br />&gt; <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Source: Chap. 25, Pride and Prejudice,<br />&gt; Jane Austen</strong><br />&gt;<br />&gt; "I hope," added Mrs. Gardiner, "that no<br />&gt; consideration with regard to this young man will<br />&gt; influence her. We live in so different a part of<br />&gt; town, all our connections are so different, and,<br />&gt; as you well know, we go out so little, that it is<br />&gt; very improbable that they should meet at all,<br />&gt; unless he really comes to see her."<br />&gt;<br />&gt; "And that is quite impossible; for he is now <b>in<br />&gt; the custody</b> of his friend, and Mr. Darcy would<br />&gt; no more suffer him to call on Jane in such a part<br />&gt; of London! My dear aunt, how could you think of<br />&gt; it? Mr. Darcy may perhaps have heard of such a<br />&gt; place as Gracechurch Street, but he would hardly<br />&gt; think a month's ablution enough to cleanse him<br />&gt; from its impurities, were he once to enter it; and<br />&gt; depend upon it, Mr. Bingley <b>never stirs without<br />&gt; him</b>."<br />&gt;</div></blockquote>
&gt;<br />&gt; "In the custody" suggests Bingley is in residence<br />&gt; at Darcy's townhouse, in my opinion, as does the<br />&gt; implication the two men are nearly joined at the<br />&gt; hip.<br /><br /><br />Well, I would have spent a lot of time reading--and probably, pining. But I am a nerd, and I have learned to accept my nature.<br /><br />Bingley does not seem to me to be a nerd (certainly not in the Mary Bennet mode, a character who proves Austen can write nerds with the best of them). To me, he seems to be a sweet, not particularly complicated but probably reasonably principled, young man. With his money, any range of courtesans and the like would have been available to assuage his longings. Did he frequent such ladies of the evening, perhaps seeking out buxon blondes who could allow him to fantasize that he was with the incomparable Jane Bennet?<br /><br />I don't think so.<br /><br />I think he probably pined. Thought about Jane, and regretted that he had not rang her chimes. At least, that is what Darcy told him. I suspect that as time went on, his pining became more intense, and he began to wish there was some way... <i>some way!</i> Even if he sought out substitutes, they would only remind him that they could never be Jane.<br /><br />You see, Mallie, men can be quite romantic, too. I daresay, men are more romantic than women. It's perfectly acceptable for a woman to recognize reasonable and practical attributes -- like, he is a good provider, and he seems to have a even temper (won't go into fits and beat me.) But men are expected to go into flights of fancy about how sweet, how quirky, how darned cute, she is. Generally, men love women because they are soft and cuddly--and perhaps, smart, too, but a smart woman who is ugly, mean and truly ill-tempered? No, she is not a romantic object.<br /><br />So, Jane Bennet was an romantic object, and time away from her only made the poor Bingley's heart grow fonder. He might have thought he could walk away and forget her, and the time away only provided more opportunity to pine.<br /><br />Is he a wimp for that reason? Maybe. But men can be wimps sometimes. Come on, guys, admit it! Or, is it only me? (blanching in horror, and then blushing like a tomato).]]></description>
<dc:creator>Redson</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:39:24 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114667#msg-114667</guid>
<title>Cracked up over this one</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114667#msg-114667</link><description><![CDATA[I admit being greatly amused by the nature of the first respondents when this question was posted — a question by a man, drawing comments initially from men.<br /><br />And yet none of the men have pondered what idle young men of means in one of the world's largest cities might have done with free time amounting to eight months in Georgian/Regency/Edwardian or even Victorian England?<br /><br />What would <b>you</b> have done, gentlemen, in Bingley's shoes?<br /><br />I don't think men have changed all that much in 200 years. Men of wealth without professions, whose time is not eaten up by requirements of wage earning, still occupy themselves in:<br /><br />— sports (ex. Four Horse and other riding clubs, horse racing, Angelo's)<br />— gaming<br />— investment opportunities and subsequent management of same (ex. buying and selling of shares in businesses like East India Trading Co, business loans, buying into funds including the government's fund)<br />— events and venues (theater, opera, museums, art shows, festivals, etc.)<br />— socialization with other men (clubs like Brooks', White's, Boodle's, coffee houses, literary or merchants’ clubs)<br />— socialization with women (both public and private in nature), and in mixed sex environments (parties, balls, soirees<br />— politics where appropriate and where interest encourage (land holdings and capital-intensive investments would have been inducements)<br /><br />The question becomes, what did these occupations look like during the estimated time frame, beyond the examples mentioned?<br /><br />A young man of wealth could keep himself quite busy, especially if he was determined to lose himself in occupation.<br /><br />As for whether Bingley stayed with Darcy: Caroline refers to Bingley as an "inmate" of Darcy's as noted in this thread, but it must have been common knowledge Bingley was staying with Darcy as Elizabeth makes a similar observation to her Aunt Gardiner.<br /><br /><blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Source: Chap. 25, Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen</strong><br /><br />"I hope," added Mrs. Gardiner, "that no consideration with regard to this young man will influence her. We live in so different a part of town, all our connections are so different, and, as you well know, we go out so little, that it is very improbable that they should meet at all, unless he really comes to see her."<br /><br />"And that is quite impossible; for he is now <b>in the custody</b> of his friend, and Mr. Darcy would no more suffer him to call on Jane in such a part of London! My dear aunt, how could you think of it? Mr. Darcy may perhaps have heard of such a place as Gracechurch Street, but he would hardly think a month's ablution enough to cleanse him from its impurities, were he once to enter it; and depend upon it, Mr. Bingley <b>never stirs without him</b>."</div></blockquote><br />"In the custody" suggests Bingley is in residence at Darcy's townhouse, in my opinion, as does the implication the two men are nearly joined at the hip.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Femme Malheureuse</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:42:09 +0000</pubDate></item>
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<guid>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114657#msg-114657</guid>
<title>Re: Georgiana&#039;s establishment</title><link>https://dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,114595,114657#msg-114657</link><description><![CDATA[Accepting what you say, Rosie J, it must be remembered that London was also a major port and comprised warehouses, a busy river trade,factories and a fairly large number of people below middle-class. (Cockney accents?) and that the fashionable West End was but a segment of it. It was little or no different than any other city except in size and population. Of that population, the percentage of it that belonged to the upper echelons of society were composed of those who only lived there plus the ones who came in fashionable season periods. There's a statistic somewhere claiming that the West End seemed almost empty when people had headed out to the country for the summer. Even today, the resident population of the City of London is only 7,000, the rest are daily commuters from the outer regions. One such region labelled as London is actually 45 miles from the centre.<br /><br />The major English universities at that time, Oxford and Cambridge didn't admit women, hence ladies finishing schools, many around Bath.. It also is worth pointing out that at the time of meeting Lizzie, Georgiana is still only sixteen years old, so social life and meeting friends wouldn't be in a very advanced stage anyway.]]></description>
<dc:creator>Jim G.M</dc:creator>
<category>Tea Room</category><pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2015 13:11:14 +0000</pubDate></item>
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