Harvey S. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "It was Darcy who was convinced that Jane was
> wrong for Bingley, and Darcy was willing to go
> some lengths to have his point."
>
> Yep, and letting someone else make that decision
> for him is what makes Bingley a wimp. It doesn't
> mean that he's a bad guy or contemptible - I had
> an uncle who was a wimp: he let people boss him
> around his entire life, starting with his mother
> and ending with his wife, but I was very fond of
> him and I think he and my aunt were happy (they
> were married for 55 years). My aunt needed to
> marry a wimp as no one else would tolerate her
> bossiness.
>
> So I think it's possible Jane could be happy with
> Bingley, though I expect having neither person in
> a marriage be decisive leads to a number of
> predictable problems. And I also think he didn't
> deserve her.
Harvey, have you
never on some matter on which you felt too emotionally involved to be objective, sought advice? If your answer is no, then I can only say W0W! I also hope that all the advice you have ever received has been good. Regency period or modern times, that is not always the case.
But perhaps you will also point out that this was the choice of a life partner? Should anyone ever seek anyone's advice on that? Probably not, is my reply. You should know your own heart and mind in this. But, realistically, people do not always--especially young people, who have not faced as much life as wise old heads. And, frankly, even wise old heads can get it very wrong.
Was Bingley being frightened, thoughtless, self-centered in his decision about Jane; or was he more concerned about her than himself? Perhaps, you would have preferred Bingley to be more like Collins, cock-sure and full of vinegar about all he could offer a woman materially? Bingley was too good a man and respected Jane too much to believe that his wealth and perhaps favor with Jane's match-making Mama would carry the day. Bingley was concerned with what Jane wanted, and when his friend offered his impression of Jane's indifference, that was the material point that won the day.
As I am sure you know, the thing about reading is that you try to understand the author's point of view and decipher the author's intent. If instead of doing this, you take one detail and build your entire interpretation on it, you are not reading very well. Austen provides any number of examples to show that Bingley is quite willing to speak up to Darcy and to object. The very first thing we hear from Bingley in the book is a reproof of Darcy, who responds in what I think is a pretty whiny fashion. Here is the exchange. Judge for yourself.
Quote
"Come, Darcy," said he, "I must have you dance. I hate to see you standing about by yourself in this stupid manner. You had much better dance."
"I certainly shall not. You know how I detest it, unless I am particularly acquainted with my partner. At such an assembly as this, it would be insupportable. Your sisters are engaged, and there is not another woman in the room whom it would not be a punishment to me to stand up with."
"I would not be so fastidious as you are," cried Bingley, "for a kingdom!
Does Bingley sound wimpy in this exchange? I have also cited in other comments in this thread remarks from Bingley that show him speaking up forthrightly. I will not repeat them here.
But, you know, love is not an easy matter. Wondering if one is loved -- who has not felt insecurity? Not Darcy,
until he was turned down. Then he felt insecurity and yearning for something he might never have, and it spurred him to change how he thought of people and to treat them differently. When Collins felt insecurity at being turned down by a woman to whom he declared his affections, he misses not a beat in declaring to another woman. Would you describe either Darcy or Collins as a wimp? Neither of them behaved as nobly in the first encounter with their so-called beloved as did Bingley, who thought of Jane and was willing to suffer to save her inconvenience and awkwardness.
Harvey, as for your dear uncle who lets people boss him around, he is really no Bingley -- at least, not the Bingley written by Jane Austen. Go to the text and find examples from Austen of Bingley allowing his sisters to boss him. He knows where to draw the line. It was not their opinions that kept him from Jane but Bingley's acceptance of Darcy's judgment
of Jane's feelings. Darcy attempted to persuade Bingley based on Jane's bad family, but that was not the point that won. As long Bingley felt Jane wanted him, he did not care how badly behaved her family was or how lacking she was in a dowry.
Fanfiction does write some marvelously wimpy Bingleys --great fun to read. How low can he go?
But it is not Austen. Read Austen well and find me examples there of Bingley being cowardly or unwilling to speak up. You may not use the mistake he makde regarding Jane because, unlike your uncle, Harvey, it was not a wimp's mistake of fear or letting other people run over him. Bingley thought about it and he did not make his decision lightly.
And, I suspect it was not a mistake he would ever make again, given that Darcy reports at the end of the novel Bingley was angry with him when he realized his friend's lie by omission (not telling him Jane had been in London for three months), and Bingley makes Jane happy by telling he did not know she had been in town. Austen clearly wants readers to know that Bingley would have called on Jane if he knew she was there and he would been given hope that she was not indifferent. But Darcy (don't even get me started on the Bingley sisters) did not tell him. If Bingley was a wimp, then Jane's being in town would have made no difference because Bingley would have been too afraid of his sisters and Darcy to do anything. That is NOT the way Austen writes it.
Had Bingley only known, then he would have acted differently. Was it his fault, or Jane's fault, that he did not know -- or was it the duplicity of others? Respond based on Austen, not fanfiction.
Finally, I will offer this consolation, Harvey. Mr. Bennet seems to have had the same impression of both Jane and Bingley that you and other readers hold. He did not use the word wimp but here is what he says to his daughter right after she has become engaged:
Quote
"...Your tempers are by no means unlike. You are each of you so complying, that nothing will ever be resolved on; so easy, that every servant will cheat you; and so generous, that you will always exceed your income."
However, Mrs. Bennet helpfully points out that Bingley has a much bigger income than Jane has been used to in her father's house. But even before she reminds her sarcastic husband of this home truth, sweet Jane has this comeback for her father's tease:
Quote
"I hope not so. Imprudence or thoughtlessness in money matters would be unpardonable in me."
The italics for emphasis are Austen's. It sounds to me that Jane is promising her sharp-tongued Papa that she will do well managing -- perhaps because she has had such an example of what not to do from Mr. Bennet?
